QatarEnergy, the world’s largest producer of natural gas, just got bombed.
Wow wow wow!
Wait, let’s do what’s always important when looking at wow wow wow graphs: Check scale. Ok, you’re looking at a period of a day. Let’s look at more.
Wow wow wow. This is what we are looking at. NOTHING happened. Really nothing.
This is Dutch TTF. It used to be much higher in 2021 and 2022 as Russia cut their gas supply. However it went down quite a bit with new LNG going online and obviously reduced gas consumption. This is still a fairly big problem, as the EU is cutting Russian LNG right now and buying more American LNG is a problem due to creating a dependence.
Right. I’m not saying there’s no problem coming up. Whatever’s happening in Iran might make things expensive again. I’m just saying that in comparison to previous crisis, nothing has happened YET.
It seems to me that every major conflict (Russia, Middle East) spikes oil prices, relatively unpredictably (if you can call this unpredictable).
Maybe the world should look for alternative sources of energy, which are abundant, cheap, and can be deployed non centrally?
No. No that’s insane.
These prices are literally controlled by price-fixing cartels.
But Europe is investing hundreds of billions in North Sea wind farms to generate hydrogen for heating, it was initiated by Putin’s actions.
Now we just have to hope that people dont dig up this bullshit idea of using hydrogen to heat your own house.
There’s really nothing wrong with generating hydrogen when power costs are negative.
Except that only happens like 500 hours a year.
And hydrogen will leak from any tank.
And it turns metal brittle.
And I wouldn’t trust my neighbor with a propane tank, let alone hydrogen.
And its nearly impossible to transport through existing infrastructure.
But other than that, its great!
You forgot about the part where the possibility of generating hydrogen cleanly from electricity later is used as an excuse to build infrastructure and fuel-cell cars for it now, even though hydrogen now is dirty hydrogen produced by cracking fossil fuels.
I have no confidence that the second phase of switching to electrolysis would actually happen, and that “the hydrogen economy” isn’t just a greenwashing scam perpetrated by natural gas producers.
What’s that? I couldn’t hear you over the nonstop greenwashing of gas cracking plants.
Wow! so glad we have clean coal now!
Most of your claims are just climate change denial arguments. Many of them were directly made up by the fossil fuel industry.
🎵🎵🎵🎵🎵
The Gang Heat Their House With Hydrogen
Like, in place of natural gas?
Yeah
I always love the stupidity of this idea: You were able to generate pure hydrogen at high costs… Now what should we do with it? Well lets just do what we did since the middle ages and burn it!
Craziest implementation? Burn the hydrogen in your home. But not in a furnace. Burn it in a mechanical combustion-powered heat pump!😁
Hydrogen has one of the highest energy densities by mass. It’s a very reasonable energy storage
If you’re launching a rocket, sure. If cost or difficulty matters in any way compared to raw mass, not really.
It was talked about for cars where density kinda matters, but you could put them in a fuel cell that way instead of just burning it, and I’m not sure if it was ever anywhere close to economical.
The cost probably will go down, and with any luck the cost of polluting will go up, but electricity is going to be more practical for most things.
Electricity has gotten dramatically more expensive too. It is no panacea. In all likelihood, most of transportation will shift over to either green fuels (e-fuels) or hydrogen. Those are one-to-one replacements for fossil fuels.
I mean, to make e-fuel you still need the e (which stands for electricity). It’s ~guaranteed to have lower round-trip efficiency and higher cost in a car than just a battery. Ditto for green hydrogen. Theoretically blue hydrogen or white hydrogen could be used instead, but it’s not certain how much white hydrogen there is, and blue hydrogen needs carbon capture and storage which will add a lot to the cost.
Gas generators are pretty much the same as ever, while renewables have gotten much cheaper than them. If your power bill went up, it’s some local issue doing it.
(Air-breathing aviation is the other application I didn’t mention. Battery planes work but not well, so it’s closer to rockets. I don’t know if anyone has tried hydrogen, but that’s where e-fuel comes up a lot)
Well, there are useful appliances for hydrogen, where you just burn it. Burning it to heat your own home isnt one if them.
Whatever comes next I‘m prepared to be deeply disappointed by my government and our European partners on this. „Make gas cheaper“ is probably at the very top of every leader‘s to do list tomorrow.
Yeah, but power sources that don’t spew fumes are for limp-wristed queers. /s
The pedofile parasite class says no
Gas is not oil.
Why is this downvoted? This guy is technically correct.
Because Lemmy. Facts lose to feels.
Yes, then we will fight over Rare Earths.
I mean sure but if you already own an electric car then a spike in battery price doesn’t particularly affect your day to day like a spike in gas prices would.
Much of Europe uses gas for heating their houses. Much of industry uses vast amounts of gas for heating all sorts of materials from asphalt to bread.
Yeah fair, it’s mostly useless in my state, but very prevalent in other states I just forget it exists. But also swapping a stove, water heater, and AC is still a lot cheaper than a new car. (I mean the AC is the only one that’s even close) are there other things people use gas for I’m forgetting?
Heating. Swapping which is far above the price of a used car.
Edit: i realize now you said water heater, but switching off gas generally involves swapping the entire heatinf system, the costs of which are usually 5 digit for a single family home.
Fair, most buying an EV I assumed are new and not used so I was looking at like 30-60k (in America) for car vs like 10-20k for new AC/water heater/stove+new wiring (more expensive than the stove or water heater themselves.) but it’s a lot more comparable when looking at used (still like 10-20k). Also realize availability and pricing for cars is likely better outside the US.
Also I realize I’m in hot world where AC=heating and cooling and in not-hot world heating and AC might not be interchangeable but I can’t imagine heating costs much more than an AC unit?
Sodium ion batteries are already in production. They’re not quite at the energy density of lithium but it’s close and also irrelevant for grid storage.
Rare earths aren’t just used in batteries, lol
Are they? I haven’t really been able to find any being offered.
Cool! I kinda meant “can I buy the cells”, but if they’re being produced in car scales, it’ll probably be a yes pretty soon.
After a little more digging, yes you can!
https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/catl-sodium-ion-battery-cell.html
Rare earths are not geographically rare. There is just a lower % of them per sample.
They also are used in ICE catalytic convertors in every vehicle. But, unlike ICE, EV rare earths can be recycled.
Good. Fuck being dependent on dictators for our energy. Renewables is the only way forward. European energy for Europeans.
Let‘s see how willing EU leaders are to stand with Ukraine when Moscow promises cheap gas tomorrow. I am genuinely frightened.
I mean, prices are muuuuch lower than in 2022, and no one wants Ukraine to lose. Europe is going nowhere on this.
If only we had some way of generating energy independent of oil and fossil fuels.
Unfortunately, we don’t, because those take a long time to build and we keep putting it off.
And the other option requires batteries that take a long time to make, and we only just started on that.
Edit: why am I getting downvoted for complaining about how pretty much every western government isnt doing enough to transition to other power sources?
‘Nuclear takes too long to build’ has been an argument against nuclear for several times longer than it takes to build even the most stringently safe nuclear power plant… its depressing.
Nah. All it takes is investment and commitment to treating electricity like a utility beyond the profit imperative. Look at what China is doing with sodium-ion batteries.
We’ve had hydroelectric, wind, and nuclear energy for a long time.
What do you mean you don’t? Has everything I heard in Cuba, China and Africa been a lie?
China is building a load of nuclear plants, it’s working very well for them and moving very quickly. They’re also building numerous solar farms and coal plants because they need whatever they can get.
Many places in Africa are doing great on Solar power, but they have requirements orders of magnitude lower than most western countries.
I don’t know much about Cuba.
Economy is imploding because people don’t want to pick between switching to green energy and not murdering brown people.
Wait. Why is that a choice? Wouldn’t switching to green energy mean less fossil fuel related wars, meaning we can have BOTH?
No no. People want MORE fossil fuel related wars. But without having to give up on fossil fuels while those wars happen.
Not really the issue at hand, but sure. This is less about getting to kill brown people than about Iranians. And their government lacks public support and is not just willing to do mass killings in the streets and executions to maintain their grip on power but is actually doing that too.
The civilian death toll is probably going to be much lower than in the January protests. But that does not mean that a military intervention is right or resolves the participants from doing nation building afterward.
Given the US record on nation building, I think we might just want to pass on that obligation.
I agree, but one must mention this duty. A war against a regime is not over until a stable, new government is established. Unless you want to subjugate.
And the German government wants to end the sales ban for gas boilers. 55% of German gas consumption is used to heat buildings. So this is a key part of reducing consumption. Another case of a conservative government hurting Germany badly.
I’m laughing because I went with Habeck’s advice and installed a simple heat exchanger in my house that is hooked up to a centralized community heating system that runs on sustainable heat sources. Because Habeck, imperfect as he may have been, had a realistic view on things that was rooted in scientific data.
Fuck the CDU and fuck the SPD, fucking class-traitor scumbags.
Switch to renewable already. Or at least, this is part of why we should’ve prior.
Right now it’s gonna sting cause these aren’t the typa changes that happen overnight.
Hello world! Canada has LNG we are looking to bring to market. Wink wink nudge nudge
Have we reached the find out phase of fucking around?
That comes when the US supply of interceptors runs out before the Iranian supply of missiles and drones.
Go green or go broke!
Y’know, usually the markets price things in well before they happened, but there was a whole lot of hopium this time that somehow a large-scale Middle Eastern war would not effect fossil fuel production and shipping.
Edit: I don’t like that everyone’s upvoting this. Less regulation is usually better, and family is important. There you go, de-pandered.
It makes me think, is the overproduction of oil and gas last year deliberate in anticipation of the war against Venezuela and Iran, in order to not shock the fossil fuel market? Because invading these countries while oil and gas prices are mid to high will piss off everyone. They must have planned this to build up of huge reserves to cushion the effects of the war in oil-rich countries.
We buy the much more expensive US fracking gas. That spike is a minor blip to Europe.
The European Commission has a website listing the top gas suppliers to Europe
https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/infographics/where-does-the-eu-s-gas-come-from/Our main suppliers are, as of 2025:
- Norway - 31.1%
- United States - 25.4%
- Russia - 13.1%
- North Africa - 12.8%
- United Kingdom - 4.3%
- Qatar - 3.8%
While Qatar doesn’t provide a huge proportion of European gas, it’s not insignificant either. A disruption in the supply of Qatari gas could very easily cause prices to go up by a lot.
Edit: It’s almost as if we should do everything in our power to rid ourselves of the dependency on fossil fuels.
Also not the 13.1% Russian share. This is the last year Russian LNG imports are allowed and imports using short term contracts are banned in two months.
It’s almost as if we should do everything in our power to rid ourselves of the dependency on fossil fuels
At full capacity (10GW), the island is expected to produce around 1 million tonnes of green hydrogen, corresponding to roughly 7% of Europe’s expected hydrogen demand
10GW = 87.6 TWh / year (even assuming 100% efficiency of the P2G process). That’s 10% of Germanys gas consumption of last year (864TWh). The EU consumes something like 5000TWh per year.
So while this might be a cool project and a much needed one, it’s not nearly enough to replace our gas imports. We should really stop using gas to heat our homes and use the miniscule amount of green gas we can produce for the processes that really require it.
In other news: Our (German) government wants to go back to gas heating and combustion engines, hoping to find some e-fuels in the attic.
I‘ve read the world just lost about 20% of the total supply with that facility. Supply chains are in shambles everywhere.
It’s not just about where european countries buy, there’s a global market, it’s about who bought gas from Qatar and where they will buy their gas now. AFAIK Qatar exports a lot to asian countries, if they can’t get gas from Qatar anymore they’re going to buy from other countries, for example from the USA. That’s going to raise the price for US fracking gas and will affect Europe.
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That’s why the price surged.
Oh dear. Please drive a bit slower or take a train…
It’s natural gas, not petrol.
Ok, yes. Oil prices are surging as well though.
