What does any of that have to do with eating or not eating meat lol
Not much. This is mostly about animal milk production. Cows have to be pregnant in order to produce milk for their calves. But dairy farmers artificially inseminate (rape) cows and steal the milk meant for the calves.
Male calves and cows who get old are sent to slaughter houses for meat, and other products like leather.
So, it does have to do a little about eating and not eating meat, but it is mostly about animal milk.
Veganism is unnatural because we’re all omnivores, and evolved eating both plants and animals.
Impregnating cows this way is also unnatural.
Both can be true.
Not only that, but also vegan diet is literally making people crazy (or crazy people are more often on vegan diet, dealer’s choice).
Source: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10408398.2020.1741505#abstract
The majority of studies, and especially the higher quality studies, showed that those who avoided meat consumption had significantly higher rates or risk of depression, anxiety, and/or self-harm behaviors. There was mixed evidence for temporal relations, but study designs and a lack of rigor precluded inferences of causal relations. Our study does not support meat avoidance as a strategy to benefit psychological health.
I think people on the left as whole would be more prone to depression and anxiety too. People who care about the world are generally more concious, more self-aware and critical, which turn into more worrying and at the extreme, anxiety.
I mean, it’s not really bestiality if it isn’t sexual. A gynocological exam also isn’t fingering.
A gynaecologist “treats” the patient, benefitting the patient.
Forcibly impregnating someone is also called rape.
Pretty fucked up to try to equate animal husbandry with rape.
If you believe that animals should have rights like humans do, then animals can be raped. If slavery was still legal, would you write “it’s pretty fucked up to equate slave husbandry with rape”? Just because we have historically done something, that doesn’t mean that what we’re doing is in any way moral.
Animals can have rights and be protected from unnecessary cruelty without anthropomophizing them and granting full human rights. You’re equating full, sapient humans with a species specifically bred for a base purpose without higher levels of thought and expression.
I don’t even think that statement is anthropocentric hubris. If ultra-advanced aliens showed up tomorrow and started domesticating humans for food or some other purpose, I would have the default expectation of them having the same or similar morals. Maybe we’d get access to decent healthcare and good libraries before we went to the slaughterhouse.
Cows get more rights than trees or crops because they have an ability to express pain and convey emotion. They don’t have the same rights as humans because they could never give a passionate argument for suffrage to a jury.
And to be clear: there are plenty of real, tangible reasons to end animal husbandry and make everyone vegan without even touching philosophy.
Slaves can have rights and be protected from unnecessary cruelty without anthropomophizing them and granting full human rights. You’re equating full, sapient humans with a species specifically bred for a base purpose without higher levels of thought and expression.
Your ancestors, probably
Kind of racist to suggest that slaves were a different species
That’s the point
This is a ludicrous argument. If you truly believe that all animals have the same rights then the only internally consistent conclusion is the virtual extermination of the human species.
Life is a zero sum game. Something lives by consuming something else or displacing it for access to limited resources. Optimizing for the minimum harm to earth’s ecosystem is always going to be the end of agriculture, housing, hunting, industry and basically everything other human institution. We’re the most insidious invasive species ever and the world would be healthier without us mucking around.
So unless you’re stumping for that, don’t pretend to have the moral high ground. If you are, stop wasting your time shaming people and skip right to culling them.
Something lives by consuming something else or displacing it for access to limited resources.
True, but no one gives a shit when the consumed life is a plant.
People say the “plants feel pain” thing rhetorically, but it isn’t a serious argument. And if they were somehow actually being serious, then this would actually strengthen the case to only consume plants due the efficiency of doing so vs consuming animal products.
Bro would rather exterminate all humans than admit that he should just go vegan
I advocate for humanity to live in harmony and balance with our environment, that is why I am anti-imperialist and anti-capitalist as well as vegan. Our history is plagued with exploitation, that can’t be denied, but I am trying to change it and you are arguing that it cannot be changed and that we shouldn’t even try.
Humanity’s relationship with animals and nature has historically been exploitative but it doesn’t need to be that way.
We have vastly increased our ability to produce food. There are ample resources available on the planet for all of us to share and live in abundance. Human greed and selfishness is rewarded by our society. That means our society needs to change.
I reject your argument that life is a zero-sum game. My happiness does not need to come at the expense of another’s unhappiness. We can all work together to create a better future for all living things on our planet.
Artificial insemination is a treatment.
Artificial insemination without consent is rape. Natural insemination without consent is rape.
Cows cannot give consent to humans. No animal can. Hell, even if we discovered another human-like species but couldn’t have meaningful communication with them, it’d still be rape.
You can get consent from the cows owner. Definitely don’t inseminate some else’s cow without asking.
Consent from the owner?
And what if chattel slavery still existed? Would you be free to rape a black woman if her “owner” said yes?
No, because owning humans is wrong.
If owning humans were ok, nothing else would be stopping you from going into your slaves?
Why is it wrong?
If the recipient asked for it and the donor is giving it out of free will with the explicit intention then yes it is a medical treatment.
Ah yes so when I give my dog antibiotics for an infection against his will it’s definitely not medical treatment
Making an animal pregnant isn’t solving a medical issue. How do you not see the difference?
Personally I view it the same as giving medicine to a baby. They don’t understand, sometimes you have to make decisions in their best interests.
Key point: in their best interests, not for personal gain.
Are you planning on eating said dog?
If we’re gonna eat it then same goes for my chickens
it is not a needed treatment for the health and well being of the cow, it is a unecessary treatment forced upon the animal
Right, but we do need more cows in the long run.
a) we don’t b) they can happily fuck on their own, it just makes it harder to exploit them for their body fluids. Nobody cares about the calves, they are just needed for the mothers to lactate
Wouldn’t it make more sense to simply induce lactation than go through the whole rigmarole of artificial insemination and then having to dispose of the unwanted calves?
It is rape!
Remember there have been at least one-doctor that did this to women, not in his offices to become pregnant (warning, SP?). A famous case was a doctor that raped/impregnanted (SP?) a lot of women looking to become mothers, with his own sperm. The obvious results/proof came after birth,
Cows are not on the same level as humans
Arguing with vegans is like arguing with antivaxxers, they are positions based on emotions and they have their own version of reality they use to reinforce their believes. They often claim they have studies to back up their claims but the most shallow dive shows them to be bullshit.
It’s literally evident as they try to reframe this as rape. Their need to lean on rhetoric shows they have a strong basis for their believes.
What do we call a sexual act with a being that did not consent?
Does it matter if the being is human? And what if the being is a neanderthal?
Or say we find a lady on the street and DNA test her, find out she’s technically not human. What would we call sexually acting upon her without her consent?
If defining this action triggers you emotionally this much, that’s a reflection of your ability to have level-headed conversations. It’s not your interlocutor as much as you’d like to claim.
My criticism here isn’t about any specific group or topic. It’s about this aggravating debate pattern where rhetoric is used to paint the opponent’s argument into a morally charged form rather than addressing the actual claim being made.
That style of engagement is not something that ever leads to meaningful discussions.
A similar dynamic occurs in other highly polarized subjects where participants are more focused on signaling moral positions than resolving the underlying question.
This sort of shit has been going on since at least the times of Artistole who championed logic over emotion.
Forcibly impregnating someone is also called rape.
someone
Key word.
It’s not rape if it’s your dog
That’s correct, yes.
However, my dog is my property, and someone can only artificially inseminate my property with my permission.
What in the fuck
Anti-vegans will go to any depths of depravity in order to deal with their cognitive dissonance. Once, on Reddit, I got a commenter to agree that he would be fine if someone had a dog in a cage they tortured for entertainment, rather than agree that it’s kinda fucked up that we slaughter animals because their flesh tastes nice.
So let me get this straight, you were arguing with someone, tried to lead them to a contradiction, but they actually had a consistent view on it that you didn’t like, and your conclusion is that they have cognitive dissonance?
My friend, I do not think that means what you think it means.
Real question, what if there is no cognitive dissonance.
Like someone who knows exactly what’s going on and says “fuck it, it’s delicious” ?
Life eats life. I’m not going to try to convince a lion to not eat a gazelle, and I’m not going to try and convince a human not to eat the thing its been hunting and eating for 10 thousand years.
I agree that factory farming is terrible. If we are going to eat an animal, its best if we raise it and kill it ourself in the quickest and most painless way possible, to ensure happiness and health during its life and mitigate as much suffering. It also forces us to face the act of death itself, and hopefully be grateful of the animal for the meals it provides.
All things die. As someone who went through “dying”, I can say with some confidence that dying sucks, and you will suffer when you go through it. Whether its being shot, stabbed, strangled, poisoned, or dying of the complications of old age. You are going to suffer unless you’re doped to high heaven on morphine or something similar.
Are vegans going about using opioids to euthanize factory farmed cows in mass? No? Then I guess they’re going to suffer, and I’m not letting them suffer in vain.
THAT would be unethical.
/s
ITT being morally superior punching down on vegans complaining that they act morally superior and punch down. All done under a photo of someone elbow deep in cow.
I don’t think you know what punching down means
I dont think most people on this thread do. Who here is of higher rank or social status or superior? I dont think anyone does, they just want to grandstand in the comments.
Seems the person that posted who is vegan thinks they are. Seems the people making all sorts of comments are also defending themselves or think they are superior.
It’s always been funny to watch this. Who gives a fuck what you eat and why, its a personal choice not a morally superior quasi-religious issue.
Can you expand a bit more on being a personal choice? Would you say an action is a personal choice even if there’s a victim involved?
What you eat is a personal choice from what’s available to you. Some people can’t afford organic vegetables and can only get protein from animal sources because they subsistence farm. Some people live in industrialized societies and have the time and resources to make most of their own food from scratch and not eat anything from animals (that’s me).
Grandstanding about it on the internet or thinking one way or another is superior abstracts this to philosophy and outside of reality. Ultimately its a choice and moralizing it or talking about hypotheticals or judging others character based on your own beliefs is ridiculous. Some people think meat is murder, some people hunt species that are over populated because humans have killed all the predators, there’s always a counter point to every part of the discussion.
You have Jains in India causing public health crises feeding pigeons and causing disease to spread, and you have people eating meat contaminated with shit giving them e coli from factory farms. There’s people that hunt and respect the animals they kill to feed their families, and people that grow their own food in their backyard because they have time and property.
It’s all relative, it’s all a personal nuanced choice. Ive heard the same moralistic arguments ad nauseum, there’s no one way to live and no one way to eat in this current world.
What you eat is a personal choice from what’s available to you.
Would you say the same about exercise? Say out of the activities available for me there’s my two favorites: walking and kicking dogs. Do you think it’s a personal choice whichever option I pick?
thinking one way or another is superior abstracts this to philosophy and outside of reality
You don’t care what people do? Even if it would impact your personal choice?
I think you are either a vegan that is still at the “I enjoy sniffing my own farts and want to rage at everyone” stage (usually <5 years and under age 30) or you are just a typical internet troll.
You claimed lots of things, but when comes the time to justify your beliefs, applying reason, you chose not to. Then you make claims about me without giving a proper reason. I think you’re unreasonable.
This fuckin comment section.
Which film is this gif from?
Look, I just like cheese okay?
Consider giving vegan cheese a try. It has gotten a lot better. Pretty accurate taste, as far as I can remember. Most even melt properly, now. Most of them are cashew based, and none of them will raise your cholesterol.
