[a study paper is shown, with some of the text legible]
STUDY RESULTS
GIVING POOR PEOPLE MONEY REDUCES CRIME MORE THAN GIVING COPS THAT SAME AMOUNT OF MONEY
CONCLUSION
If you want to reduce crime, take care of your community’s primary needs instead of funding cops so much
[an orange character in a suit has stamped a paper labeled MORE POLICE FUNDING BILL, and is grinning]
Heh, you think we don’t know?
https://thebad.website/comic/scientific_policing
Is it true thouh?
Because in my country we have quite strong social support. And whole communities of minorities stopped working because of that. And they often fill their free time with offence (speeding, fights, gun offence…) and crime (like selling guns, drugs…) for extra money. In past two years we stopped this and now condition social support with behaving.
Damn, you’re kinda shitty
Tell us that you enjoy a position of privilege and don’t understand that others aren’t as fortunate without telling us that you enjoy a position of privilege and don’t understand that others aren’t as fortunate
Jusy because I want to know if this commic is backed by actual research?
We really have strong social support. People in my country can live just on social support. People are still poor, but can survive.
Maybe that is not the case in your country… But in Slovenia it became a real issue no social program was able to solve. I still support our social support programs. However conditioning a part of social support with paying for your offence penalties turned out to be a success…
While majority still does not want to do that, some individuals and some whole communities where this is normalized decide to stop working and live poor life with no stress of work.
It did not help them, they are a minority. However same minority successfully integrated in other parts of our (small) country so it is not a minority issue. 30 years of really trying to integrate them did not work because unconditional social support allowed them to isolate even further and crime gave them an extra buck so they could afford some luxury.
Do you have a better solution for that issue?
You’re talking about Roma people
People who are consistently discriminated against and displaced
It’s racism
What you’re talking about (and evidently endorsing) is racism
No, racism was politics that kept them in their poor situation.
If you support a policy that seems good on surface but keeps people in perpetual poverty you should check on a racist in a mirror.
Violent people that could not be punished did hold whole roma community isolated and poor. I think that allowing such state is racism and it is discusting that one might support that. And all that while thinking you are helping a community.
I hope you can see the contradiction here. You just said they don’t work and now say that they do illegal work. That should be your first clue that something about your information is wrong, because obviously these two things can’t be true at the same time.
More broadly, the idea that “whole communities of minorities stopped working” because of social welfare is, frankly, bullshit. And not just that, it’s the kind of bullshit that gets repeated everywhere (see: welfare queen rhetoric in America), because its purpose is to rile up working class people of the majority ethnicity against minorities. The fact of the matter is: People like having financial security and nice things, so the vast majority of people aren’t going to stop working because they’re getting the pittance of money that counts for social welfare in even really generous countries. When people don’t work, that’s almost always because they can’t work (see asylum seekers for another example), so whoever is telling you that dirty gypsies are lazily living off your tax money is feeding you bullshit. When it comes to Romas specifically, Romas have been shut out of polite society for centuries now, and it’d be ridiculous to assume that it stopped overnight. But we don’t have to assume; we know it hasn’t. It’s no coincidence that countries without intense and longstanding anti-Roma hatred also don’t have stereotypes about dirty Gypsies living off your tax money.
So is there evidence that Roma crime is in any way correlated with social welfare or are you accepting that this “solution” worked based on vibes?
I think you should research a topic in Slovenia specifically more deeply. We had two very very specific reasons why this is different for Slovenia:
Legal work would take their social security away. And they would have to work full time for no extra money. Would you?
In many countries, behind this kind of argument is a racist motivation. But in some cases this kind of assuming bad intent actually keeps disadvantaged communities isolated, poor and hostage to crime.
I thought lemmy was a place of an actuall debate. And now I see how easy you all assume bad motivation… And allow yourself to put words like “dirty Gypsie” in my mounth.
No, you should back up your assertions with data. Assuming what you’re saying is true, though, let’s try this:
Then the question becomes: Why is the money they’d get if they worked minimum wage? That’s your problem right there.
Yeah that sounds like a problem. Nothing to do with social welfare though.
I didn’t put them in your mouth; I put them in the mouth of wherever you’re getting your information. You seem to be well-meaning, but the stereotypes you’re parroting (which, again, show up everywhere, so this isn’t something unique about Slovenia) do come from the kind of people who would be mad at dirty Gypsies for stealing their tax money.
Conclusion: Lobotomize all civilians and put them to work, to protect them from the evils of personal time.
This is your conclusion… My conclusion is to stop giving as much social support to people who abuse the mechanism.
Maybe one thing that was not clear: If you were poor enough, government was not allowed to take your social support. Which means people were commiting offences and were not punished for them like the rest of us. They did not have to pay. Our jails are full and I hope you also do not want to put people in jail for minor offences.
Sounds like a thought crime. Off to the pony miniaturization factory with you!
He’s talking about Roma people
It’s racism, but OP doesn’t see it as such, because Roma people are apparently less human than other humans
Well hello FistingEnthusiast! I’m not sure you responded to the right thread.
I made a sarcastic comment that he took literally.
Oh, I got your point
I was explaining how OP’s racism is apparently different, because the people concerned are Roma
The Roma have faced systematic discrimination for centuries, and they were among the groups Hitler was very enthusiastic about wiping out
This should be a given right?
No. Fuck means testing bullshit.
Sounds like you let the wrong “minorities” in, mate…
They (roma) are native in my country. With as much right to this place as me.
And yet, you seem to see them as less deserving
No, they deserve help. They need it. All poor people deserve help. But Slovenian law allowed criminals among then them to actually never be punished. Criminas are in all communities. But criminals on social support actually could not be punished. This patteren was the most obvious in Roma community.