Peanut

Love how this always gets downvoted, but i grew up around foster kids in that area, and I promise you his effort would have saved lives.

Same with atheists who were trying to make genital mutilation blanket illegal in the states, as well as fighting groups like the heritage foundation who want to keep such classic patriarchal standards alive, but being against that means you obviously hate women and think MGM is worse than FGM, and other strawmen. It was enough to make both progressive groups hate each other, with accusations of SJWs or incels based on similar legitimate grievances on both sides.

Heritage foundation types have obviously been making record ground in the meantime.

For some reason progressive solidarity just isn’t possible, because we can’t help the wrong group of struggling people. Social signalling is obviously more important than cooperatively helping those who are suffering, or in stopping the wealthy from shaping the system to fuck everyone that isn’t already part of their grotesque fascist system.

Can’t stop the actual fascists if other progressives are all the real enemy for some incomprehensible reason that always makes it back to stupid issues like this, where we just can’t recognize the niche situation, or show basic compassion or solidarity within.

As long as we keep “punching up” we can ignore the foster kids who died alone, or festered into something negative because all they ever had was a non-life where they are simultaneously exploited and told they don’t deserve help because they share some intersectional features of privilege, as explained by people who obviously never fully understood intersectionality or how such high dimensional representations can be reasonably interpreted. Usually protected by some socialized bubble of privilege where they can just go with what is being socialized and not think too hard about it.

So it’s all a clusterfuck of people using the same words to say different things, and ignoring the forest for the trees.

But surely the problem is the incels, or SJWs, and not the system that exploits both and discourages either from co-constructively solving general problems of inequality.

Or just beat up the undiagnosed poverty autistic waiting to access the library, while feeling good about how much you are fighting the system of oppression.

Or like in silverman’s place, bully the person trying to help a group that doesn’t actually have access to help, and try to shame people who mention that crushing the potential men’s shelter did not actually do anything to benefit any progressive values.

These aren’t the billionaires or entrenched oligarchs that are actively shaping a society that individualizes blame in ways that ensure you never look at the lobby groups, or war machine, or people with the money generally fucking the system into their preferred fascist shape. Let’s go after the fucking homeless instead I guess, because they are the truly privileged oppressors.

“look the guy who spends all day every day saying things said a cringe thing once! stop listening to him about israel and billionaires!”

there’s a huge hasan smear campaign by corpo “democrats” right now, because obviously he’s the real danger for some reason and not the cheeto rapist in power.

when people are calling democrats controlled opposition, this is what they mean.

remember hasan’s dog? don’t think about the entrenched democrats actively enabling the fascist takeover. don’t think about their support for funding israel’s genocide of gaza. what if his dog possibly potentially had a shock collar because the way it moved once! keep hasan on the defensive so he isn’t talking about israel or billionaires!

etc.

i definitely am not the biggest hasan fan, but i find myself defending him regularly from absolute bullshit.

if there’s was ever a time to be picky about hasan’s choice of emotionally biased statements on non-issues, this is really not it.

" gets so much traction with dudes acting like its a mayor cultural abuse of men while scarcely connecting to other genital mutilation happening to women"

FGM is already illegal in the states, otherwise i’m sure the constant comparison would matter more. also why are we making zero sum games for progressives when making a progressive safe environment would give more rights to everyone?

this is one of the frustrating points of contention that managed to get atheists and feminists fighting each-other rather than fighting groups like the heritage foundation well over a decade ago. i legitimately believe a lot of people pushing the need to suggest that somehow people are pretending FGM is being dismissed whenever addressing MGM are just bots/instigators trying to get people fighting. that is stupid. nobody is arguing this. why are we making this divisive bullshit salient and real?

“all genital mutilation is bad. it’s fucked up that it’s still legal in any capacity.” =/= “we hate women.”

even almost twenty years ago, saying “this is stupid, we should be supporting each-other progressively in rights and freedoms against thing like religious mutilation of baby genitals, and stopping religiously empowered political groups from dominating the discourse,” earned an inbox full of mutilated penis imagery, because somehow feminism is supposed to somehow be incompatible with a world where male babies don’t get their genitals mutilated to show that it’s just “not as bad” or something. ignore the kids who die from infection or w/e.

this was successfully made into the dominant social response in any context.

then we saw a couple decades of atheists and feminists being too distracted defending against incel/SJW branding to do anything about the fascist takeover, and progressives, dejected, vacated spaces allowing whole new incel chud armies to breed and take over. you’d think some would see this as a backfiring, but “it proves our point” so we won’t think about that.

i just wish i would stop seeing the same completely unnecessary divisive arguments that have helped groups like the heritage foundation get into power to remove rights for EVERYONE.

helping men =/= helping the patriarchy.

luckily, it looks like this thread is full of non-divisive conversation on the subject. this makes me happier.

heritage foundation types are destroying the world, we need solidarity and action focused at the problem, rather than anger at trans people wanting basic human rights, or at atheists/activists for wanting to remove classic religious patriarchal baby genital cutting traditions, because being against that makes you the patriarchy somehow. etc.

Slop generally should be seen as negative. It lacks novelty, and relies on blending old concepts, while entirely avoiding exploration and novelty. Although people have such poor understanding of both creativity and intelligence that the dialogue that gets socialized around AI is pretty unhinged. Copyright is just a system altered so that old money oligarchs can hoard “human software” under the guise of empowering creators. This leads to things like the tumblr “you stole my style” wars. And now being a “real” artist means being an AI slop style intern for Disney types. Good art such companies make are due to the intern artists, DESPITE the corporate influence, but it’s always incentivized to be enshittified by the active corporate process.

Turing was trying to show many aspects of intelligence. Michael Levin from Tufts university is carrying on Turing’s work in morphogenesis, which is showing how concepts built in counterfactual spaces are used in a systems actively updating as they grow into new eco-niches. This lets you feel out the new space, even in abstract conceptual spaces that are detached from your sensory signals. This let’s you build abstract yet useful patterns depending on what parts of reality seem important for your type of system. Rudimentary eyes might not comprehend the sun, but it can use it as a binary gate for an internal mechanism to activate, enabling survival tools that rely on detecting day/night, even if those concepts aren’t comprehended in the heuristic. You build robustness through scale and diverse means to build perspective and weighting active Bayesian predictive systems on top of, inside, and around each other.

LLMs don’t have the active updating, so can’t grow into novel spaces, which is important.

They however are great at certain impulse probabilistic decision making, not unlike our ability to effortlessly spew coherent combinations if words, although we need another system to pay attention and halt that process when it makes mistakes, and also to direct salience. When you don’t add deeper novel patterns, but just the facade of patterns you’ve seen, you often get something that likes like generative slop, especially if you’re familiar with the deeper meaning that’s being inappropriately usurped to signal a fake competence. Like when AI mostly gets what a hand is, but easily gets confused due to a lack of robustness or ability to recognize what is actually wrong with an extra few fingers. When our own robust “checks” fail, we might start hearing voices that aren’t consistent with reality, as one mis-weighted system projects into another. Confabulation is a big part of intelligence, although its not inherently hallucinatory.

LLMs are definitely a part of human style intelligence. That’s why Geoffrey Hinton talks about how our brains “ping.” turing has an amazing understanding of intelligence, especially for his time. Intelligence is also many things, as by its very nature is a growing grab bag if heuristics to call on or balance on. As hinton suggests, the layman comprehension of intelligence is flat earth level of misrepresented.

I think if Turing were alive he’d be in love with current academic dialogues, and he’d probably be a furry.