Ok, schoolsc are typically some variation of 8-3, which is 7 hours. I have no idea where you’re getting 12 hours from other than some crazy extreme outlier.
During that 7 hours, you think they just sit in a room, and get handed shit after shit? That’s not even close to reality. That “massive” 7 hours is about 4 hours broken up into 45-1 hour increments after you have lunch/recess for an hour, a second or third recess that’s 30-1 hour, art class, music class, gym, ect.
Beyond that, I have no idea how you think they should learn anything without sitting and practicing. I’m not sure if you’re aware, but when a lot of states went to in hime learning during covid, the kids did fucking horrible.
You don’t want 25 kids in a class with 3 teachers? Pay more taxes to hire more people to be in the class. You don’t want higher taxes? Well your math doesn’t math. If you think teachers only work between their contract hours, you’re on fucking crack. All that decorative shit in their room? That’s out of pocket not reimbursed shit they bought. All the little snacks your kid gets is out of pocket, not reimbursed. Most teachers skip their lunch and they don’t get a penny of overtime.
How would you feel if you had to buy nearly everything at you job you used, turn had to work 50 hours a week to get your job done right to be paid for 40 hours. Getting paid on breaks? Yeah, you’re paying yourself. Every check has an amount withheld so you can pay yourself over breaks, holidays, and summer. It’s not “free money” you’re paid.
Then you have parents like yourself that have zero clue how anything works, how to even deal with working in a class with 25 kids. But somehow you have all the answers and are an expert? Sure, whatever you say.
12 hours are from uni i guess. I think 9 hours happened at a-level.
Yes you got breaks, where you move from one room to another. So much recreation.
How would pupils learn better: focus on important topics. Dont teach about arts, music, sports. These belong to leisure time and are more fun in non-graded environments. Any institution needing those skills have their own tests in place already.
Give them peer reviewed nationally standartized learning material for async learning. From a certain age, dont need a teacher reading the script. A video is sufficient. With a colloqium of course. Until that age, focus on enabling that self learning. Reading, writing, computer literacy. Nothing else.
Spent 20+ years in the system. I’d call myself an expert, yes.
No, you’re not an expert just because you went to school. This is what so many adults think, and get wrong. You’re not trained pedagogically.
Didn’t you just comment above that students shouldn’t be sitting still for 6 hours? How do you think kids learn writing and reading? It’s not by playing outside.
And learning about art and music is important for overall roundedness of an education. Sports should, ideally, introduce you to various different sports, and encourage you to move. Arts attempts to foster creativity, expression, and using your hands. Music has been a part of human culture for millenia. Teaching kids about music, how it works, about different instruments, different styles of music, is again part of expressing yourself as a human being. This is only one part of your classes though.
Nowadays kids, as I am sure back in the day, don’t want to concentrate on just videos. Like, you don’t understand the half of being a teacher if you think you can just leave a video on and expect the kids to learn. About 75% of a teacher’s job is basically managing the classroom so that the kids don’t cause anarchy.
I’d argue pedagoges agree the current system is wrong. My own aproach to these things is anthropologic. What resembles the situation in free nature most? And a pint of logic.
The reason we still have this medieval system, if you’d wanted to argue for that, is we want parents to work and children to be watched. Teachers are exactly. I think from a certain age we can drop this bullshit and give the children a more lax framework that also resembles actual work situation.
Noone in work will teach you how to do things for x hours, then a test and 4 is passing. In work, anything besides 1 or 2 is a do it again. And you have to figure alot of the how tos yourself or atleast know when to ask what.
About ‘free nature’, well, humans developed in small tribes for a long time, with sons learning their fathers’ craft and the women mostly staying at home learning crafts, cooking, etc.
But at some point, we decided as a society to advance beyond that. A school system teaches every citizen the basic skills and knowledge required to thrive in modern society (ideally).
Unfortunately, in our society, yes, parents usually need to work during the day. And I know, the bells and the classes and the discipline can remind one of the army. But it’s really kind of the most available method. How else can we educate most children?
If we also really want to go and look at history, anthropology, and learning, we should look at class sizes. A class size of five to ten children learns extremely well compared to forty.
The point of testing, to your point, is to try and verify learning of a concept or skill. Many workplaces expect you to have learned some or most of the base skills to help you understand the work and do it efficiently, before you get hired. Or, you have on-the-job training. Learning how to ask for help is an important social and mental skill, which is lacking from some kids already. Or, more commonly to my experience, they ask for help at the slightest inconvenience or setback.
The real issue is not the sitting down and studying, it’s the amount of resources (not) given to schools and teachers, as well as the fact that authority was taken away from them. In ancient rome and greece, up to even the modern age, teachers had authority and respect, and were able to discipline kids and students. Now, I’m not saying we should hit children, but most of the discipline tools we had just ten years ago are complete wishwash compared to now. Partly because of whiny parents who think their ‘golden child’ could do no wrong.
About 75% of a teacher’s job is basically managing the classroom so that the kids don’t cause anarchy.
To demonstrate this, just take a class of 5th graders and observe how the volume and behaviour of the kids changes, the second the teacher leaves the room.
Being stuffed in a room with 20 others to sit still for 6 - 12 hours is just inhumane.
20 only?
I went up to 36 in high school lol
There’s periodic breaks where the kids who reached puberty first are allowed to hunt you for sport.
Ok, schoolsc are typically some variation of 8-3, which is 7 hours. I have no idea where you’re getting 12 hours from other than some crazy extreme outlier.
During that 7 hours, you think they just sit in a room, and get handed shit after shit? That’s not even close to reality. That “massive” 7 hours is about 4 hours broken up into 45-1 hour increments after you have lunch/recess for an hour, a second or third recess that’s 30-1 hour, art class, music class, gym, ect.
Beyond that, I have no idea how you think they should learn anything without sitting and practicing. I’m not sure if you’re aware, but when a lot of states went to in hime learning during covid, the kids did fucking horrible.
You don’t want 25 kids in a class with 3 teachers? Pay more taxes to hire more people to be in the class. You don’t want higher taxes? Well your math doesn’t math. If you think teachers only work between their contract hours, you’re on fucking crack. All that decorative shit in their room? That’s out of pocket not reimbursed shit they bought. All the little snacks your kid gets is out of pocket, not reimbursed. Most teachers skip their lunch and they don’t get a penny of overtime.
How would you feel if you had to buy nearly everything at you job you used, turn had to work 50 hours a week to get your job done right to be paid for 40 hours. Getting paid on breaks? Yeah, you’re paying yourself. Every check has an amount withheld so you can pay yourself over breaks, holidays, and summer. It’s not “free money” you’re paid.
Then you have parents like yourself that have zero clue how anything works, how to even deal with working in a class with 25 kids. But somehow you have all the answers and are an expert? Sure, whatever you say.
12 hours are from uni i guess. I think 9 hours happened at a-level.
Yes you got breaks, where you move from one room to another. So much recreation.
How would pupils learn better: focus on important topics. Dont teach about arts, music, sports. These belong to leisure time and are more fun in non-graded environments. Any institution needing those skills have their own tests in place already.
Give them peer reviewed nationally standartized learning material for async learning. From a certain age, dont need a teacher reading the script. A video is sufficient. With a colloqium of course. Until that age, focus on enabling that self learning. Reading, writing, computer literacy. Nothing else.
Spent 20+ years in the system. I’d call myself an expert, yes.
No, you’re not an expert just because you went to school. This is what so many adults think, and get wrong. You’re not trained pedagogically. Didn’t you just comment above that students shouldn’t be sitting still for 6 hours? How do you think kids learn writing and reading? It’s not by playing outside. And learning about art and music is important for overall roundedness of an education. Sports should, ideally, introduce you to various different sports, and encourage you to move. Arts attempts to foster creativity, expression, and using your hands. Music has been a part of human culture for millenia. Teaching kids about music, how it works, about different instruments, different styles of music, is again part of expressing yourself as a human being. This is only one part of your classes though. Nowadays kids, as I am sure back in the day, don’t want to concentrate on just videos. Like, you don’t understand the half of being a teacher if you think you can just leave a video on and expect the kids to learn. About 75% of a teacher’s job is basically managing the classroom so that the kids don’t cause anarchy.
I’d argue pedagoges agree the current system is wrong. My own aproach to these things is anthropologic. What resembles the situation in free nature most? And a pint of logic.
The reason we still have this medieval system, if you’d wanted to argue for that, is we want parents to work and children to be watched. Teachers are exactly. I think from a certain age we can drop this bullshit and give the children a more lax framework that also resembles actual work situation.
Noone in work will teach you how to do things for x hours, then a test and 4 is passing. In work, anything besides 1 or 2 is a do it again. And you have to figure alot of the how tos yourself or atleast know when to ask what.
About ‘free nature’, well, humans developed in small tribes for a long time, with sons learning their fathers’ craft and the women mostly staying at home learning crafts, cooking, etc. But at some point, we decided as a society to advance beyond that. A school system teaches every citizen the basic skills and knowledge required to thrive in modern society (ideally). Unfortunately, in our society, yes, parents usually need to work during the day. And I know, the bells and the classes and the discipline can remind one of the army. But it’s really kind of the most available method. How else can we educate most children? If we also really want to go and look at history, anthropology, and learning, we should look at class sizes. A class size of five to ten children learns extremely well compared to forty. The point of testing, to your point, is to try and verify learning of a concept or skill. Many workplaces expect you to have learned some or most of the base skills to help you understand the work and do it efficiently, before you get hired. Or, you have on-the-job training. Learning how to ask for help is an important social and mental skill, which is lacking from some kids already. Or, more commonly to my experience, they ask for help at the slightest inconvenience or setback. The real issue is not the sitting down and studying, it’s the amount of resources (not) given to schools and teachers, as well as the fact that authority was taken away from them. In ancient rome and greece, up to even the modern age, teachers had authority and respect, and were able to discipline kids and students. Now, I’m not saying we should hit children, but most of the discipline tools we had just ten years ago are complete wishwash compared to now. Partly because of whiny parents who think their ‘golden child’ could do no wrong.
Sorry for the rant.
To demonstrate this, just take a class of 5th graders and observe how the volume and behaviour of the kids changes, the second the teacher leaves the room.
Especially for us neurodivergents.
20 is optimistic.
The standard in my school was 40
These days you’re lucky if you have less than 30 in your class. The classrooms are still designed for 20, though
What could work better?
deleted by creator